I'm a life-long resident of Forsyth County, with a long ancestral history connected to Forsyth County and Cumming, GA.

Many of us see Cumming, GA (the county seat) as an integral part of the county and would like to see it prosper.

If you are so stingy as to want SPLOST all for yourself because you live outside of the City Limits, how would you feel if you lived inside the City Limits, since it seems to be all about you?

Too bad the City of Cumming can't tell the county to remove all their ugly county government buildings that are an eye sore to their lovely little town and build it back the way it was in 1838, and tell all county residents to not enter the City Limits of Cumming, GA.

Hey, Joe! It is YOUR mayor and city council that have deliberately kept the city from prospering, even when they received far, far more SPLOST dollars than what they could have effectively spent. It is YOUR mayor and city council that have allowed the un-development of the city to occur over the past 20 years as Forsyth County has grown and matured. It is YOUR mayor and city council that have allowed the city to remain small in size and population, while creating a government-style atmosphere.

Most of the county's infrastructure problems are OUTSIDE of the city, and need to be fixed sooner than the city's problems. The city has proposed about $50 million in improvements, with almost none of them NEEDING to be done. They even proposed a $15 million parking deck for a courthouse which will be moved in 5 years or so. Great idea, Joe!

I'm all for taking care of the city's NEEDS, Joe, but not for wasting money on the city's WANTS.

Joe (?), from Wikipedia.com: "Joe Shmoe (also spelled Joe Schmoe or Joe Schmo) is one of the most commonly used fictional names in American English." I suspect Joe Schmoe is not your real name. If not, shame on you for answering anonymously.

Today, for the first time ever, there was a majority on the County Board of Commissioners who protected the county's interest and produced a fair split of the next SPLOST with the city. Commissioners Richard, Harrell and Laughinghouse voted to give the City of Cumming its population share of the next SPLOST.

The City has been receiving more than three times its population share and has historically never received less than two times is fair population share.

If I lived inside the city limits I would think the city received its fair share of the SPLOST when based on the city's percentage of the county population.

I think the city of Cumming has prospered too well for the past twenty five years because its prosperity was paid for by unfair portions of county sales taxes (both SPLOST and LOST), and the ridiculously high wholesale water prices the city charges the county.

You may want to visit my website at http://ronseder.com/lostsplost.htm and http://ronseder.com/WaterSewer.htm to see more of my rationale about these issues.

David,

If the courthouse is moved, don't you think that the original building will be used for something else? So, therefore I don't see a parking deck in "Down Town" Cumming as a waste of money. There isn't enough parking in Cumming.

If you give the City of Cumming SPLOST money according to population, how much do they get in 5 years? About 9 million. You can't do much for 9 million any more.

I noticed that people who participated in the 2030 envision group said that they would like to have a "Down Town." I would too. Given that the City of Cumming is small and has not wanted to grow, the growth has spread out all through the rural parts of Forsyth County. The one and only City in Forsyth County should be larger than it is. Isn't Vickery Village on Post Road actually larger than the whole City of Cumming. It looks bigger. It looks like a city. The high density growth and commercial growth should be in the one and only municipality in the county. So, let them have the money David. Thank you, Joe Schmoe.

Also, David and Ron,

The state has not widened hwy 9, and hwy 20, (the two major roads leading into the City of Cumming) since they have been in existence. Naturally, this has had a negative affect on growth in the City. The city needs to repair Bald Ridge Marina Road. It is full of pot holes. Also, if Great Wolf Lodge locates at Mary Alice Park, it isn't a bad idea to widen Pilgrim Mill Road leading into the City of Cumming for the tourists getting off of "hospitality highway." What a joke!

Forsyth County has been one of the nation's fastest growing counties for many years now. Why is the state building four lane hwys. in rural parts of South and North Georgia? It doesn't make sense.

You failed to tell the readers whether Joe Schmoe is your real name, or if you are hiding behind a fictional name.

Come on now Ron, Do you really think if my last name of Schmoe that my parents would name me Joe? Actually my name is Lynn Poole Pruitt.

As you can see from my original response to you above, I thought the Joe Schmoe name you gave was fictitious.

We didn't believe her either Ron.

However, We would like to see a complete list of SPECIAL PURPOSEs that our SPLOST funds will be spent on. We are not satisified with categories. We want specifics.

You will, boys! In fact, if you are brave enough to come out of the shadows, you can even volunteer your time to help develop the prioritization list of projects.

Call your commissioner or send them an e-mail if you want to be included in the process. We have a list of almost $700 million in capital improvement projects just waiting to be prioritized by citizens and commissioners.

Lynn,

You don't put a parking deck at the farthest reaches of the buildings you need to serve, either. You centralize the deck around all the buildings you need to serve. Putting one by the Tyson plant is a major waste of money.

We're not in the shadows Dave. We're right out here in broad open daylight. We are the minority. We are the ones you chose to belittle and ridicule if we dare to open our mouths. We are the ones who no longer have rights.

How did the BOC arrive at the $700 million figure? Did they pull it out of thin air to allow a group of select citizens to decide where the money will be best spent to enhance their quality of life? We thought the infrastructure study was meant to determine where improvements were needed.

I was at the meetings where the Forsyth BOC discussed the amounts which they were considering for the city to recieve SPLOST funds. The mayor and several folks from the city were present for the first meeting. At that meeting the mayor told the BOC that 10% of the SPLOST to the city would not be acceptable. This rejection was also widely, and accurately reported in several newspapers. I would say that the mayor knowingly and with consent of his staff took a gamble and lost, hoping that the 2 commissioners he has in his pocket would somehow influence the result at later meetings. It appears, in so doing he really betrayed the people of the city who could easily have had 10%. Now, in order to save face he has lowered himself to this disgusting ranting, and is holding a lawsuit gun to the heads of the majority residents of the county. In the end the money belongs to the people who pay it, the taxpayers. For the city to feel that it is entitled to whatever amount they should declare is true confiscation.

We too are concerned about SPLOST. According to today's Forsyth County News, the county barely met the deadline to have the SPLOST question placed on the Feb. 5, 2008 ballot. Chairman Laughinghouse said, "We were on a tight deadline and we had to go ahead and do what we could."

Will specifics projects be listed on the ballot or determined later by community participants? We want to know how the money will be spent BEFORE we vote on SPLOST and bond referendums, NOT after.

The projects will NOT be listed on the ballot, but WILL be decided by citizens well BEFORE the referendum is taken in february. With all the projects anticipated to be completed in te next SPLOST, it would be impossible to list all of them on the ballot. It would take the average voter 5-10 minutes just to read the ballot question.

If you want to have any input on where the county should spend the money anticipated to be raised in the next SPLOST, give your commissioner a call and get on the committee that will be formed. It is no guarantee that the projects you want will be included, but it will be your voice to help prioritize projects along with the input of county staff.

Oh, and Tom, Dick and Harry? I only belittle people who speak stupidly, like you just did. Do you think we just sit around and dream up projects and figures when the time is right? That would be the city, not the county. We have an on-going list of capital improvements based on needs AND the infrastructure survey we just concluded. And since about 75% of the anticipated projects will be road and traffic improvement projects, we'll actually see something accomplished with this SPLOST in fixing issues that affect a majority of people in the county, not some useless expenditures that accomplshed nothing in the city over the past 5 years.

We don't think we are speaking stupidly Dave, We think you are.

We think accountability requires that the SPLOST program must be important enough to spend the time, develop a real plan and do it right. The Board of Commissioners naturally wants ultimate flexibility, and will tell us that priorities change over time.

You say that a citizens committee will prioritize the SPLOST projects, which we believe will allow for cherry picking.

You say that a list will be published well in advance of the SPLOST referendum. We fear that many people will not see the list.

We want the ballot to place the electorate on fair notice of the projects to which the tax will be devoted. The ballot is the only binding approval process.

If the ballot question does not include, even by reference, exactly what we are expected to approve. As such, there is at least disagreement, and at worst a serious lack of accountability.

Sorry, boys, but you still speak stupid on this one.

You want a ballot question that contains ALL the projects expected to be completed in the next 5 years. Every intersection improvement. Every road widening. Every public safety improvement. Everything, right?

Did you get that the last 5 times you voted for SPLOST? No. You didn't ask for it then, either, and I'll bet you cheerfully voted to approve SPLOST each and every time. You're just ticked off that the city got what they finally deserved to get in the minds of many Forsyth County resident's minds, and that a majority of commissioners had the fortitude and principle to stick up for the ENTIRE county, not just the special interests of the city and others.

I said it in the last election. You lost. We won. Deal with it. Life is tough - get a helmet.

Your arguments are entirely without merit. The people who CARE about SPLOST will see the list, as it will be publicly available and will likely be promoted by another independent group who wishes to see these improvements completed, just like last time. It WILL NOT be promoted by the county or any of it's departments.

We have hundreds of projects in our capital improvement plan, yet with a few exceptions, they are largely not yet prioritized. We will have a balanced cross section of county residents who will provide their input as to which projects should receive funds first, but as with all things, it will take a majority vote of the county commission to approve each project. So far this board has shown an unusual propensity to vote independently of one another, and I suspect that it will continue, so I do not think that your "cherry picking" term will apply.

If we were to do what you say regarding the ballot being a binding approval process, if the last SPLOST contained the specific projects being contemplated 5 years ago, we would have had to widen Brookwood and Castleberry Roads to four-lane, median-divided highways. Obviously, there was, and remains, no reason to do these projects, so having them on the ballot would bind us to some decisions that might need to bechanged in the future. Your argument is therefore foolish.

Finally, to place all the projects on the ballot would make it a 5-10 minute process for people to actually READ the ballot. It would also require us to have started the process far, far earlier to get a prioritized list in place, neither of which is efficient for us, or the voters.

In short, the process is, and will continue to be well thought out. It is, and will continue to be planned and done right. It will be pen to the public and completed in plenty of time for the people to be informed. The process has all the accountability it needs, as the people can vote us out if we don't do things the way they want them.

And 4% of the population can't control 96% of the rest of us. That is truly fair and accountable.

David, we would like to see the video of the called BOC meeting of Oct. 30, 2006. The County Web Site has the 10/18 meeting and the 11/1 meeting, but not the 10/30 meeting. Why? We would like to view ALL of the meetings. Please tell us why that meeting isn't on the county web site.

No Dave, we are not mad because the city didn't get the 15% they were seeking. We don't live in Cumming. Let's just say, we are ashamed of our county commissioners, since some counties gladly give their city 25% of SPLOST because they take pride in their City. Our commissioners behave the way they do because of their dislike for Ford Gravitt.

See Dave, in this state, as you well know, there are some very rural counties where most of the population actually lives in the only large town in the county. Without checking, we will just say Tifton, GA. So, without an agreement, Tifton would receive the larger amount of SPLOST if no agreement was reached between the county and city.

Also, the county of Gwinnett has about 11 incorporated cities with which they must reach an agreement. We don't think 15% is a disproportionate amount considering Forsyth Co. only has one town. But, we'll wait and see what the court has to say.

Sorry Dave, we made a typo in the post above our last post. We meant to say, "the called meeting of October 30, 2007 not 2006."

One more thing Dave. Instead of calling us "stupid" why don't you just call us "uninformed voters." Why doesn't the BOC do like the BOE and hold a special election for SPLOST because they only want the "informed voters" to vote. Remember how mad you got about that Dave?

The reason the called meeting isn't on the website is that it was held in the conference room in back, not in the big room. We don't have video setup in that room. If you want to see all the meetings, you'll just have to go to all the meetings.

Now, back to stupid. If more people LIVED in CUMMING, as in your Tifton example, then more issues would EXIST in Cumming, just as they do in Tifton. Therefore, Tifton SHOULD receive more SPLOST money than Cumming.

If the city would come up with projects that reflect actual NEED instead of DESIRE, I'd consider a larger split for them, but the FACT remains that the list of projects the city came up with are way, way down on the priority list for fixing the problems this entire COUNTY has. Your only argument has been that commissioners are mad at Ford Gravitt. Prove it. Tell us all here why we are mad at the mayor. I challenged the fishwrapper the other day to prove it, and I'll get the same answer from you. Silence. A majority of this board couldn't care less about this mayor or this city, so long as they continue to waste tax dollars on useless projects. If they, or you, can make the case for more money, you are both free to try, but their set of projects fails the needs test. Ours doesn't.

And to your last comment, Jim Harrell and I have been the driving force in making sure that elections such as this are held when the most people are voting. We will never resort to the BOE tactic of holding special elections as long as I am on the BOC. The problem is that you aren't uninformed. You are just a shill for the city when the FACTS are all around you that constantly ignore. And that is just plain stupid.

Be ashamed of us all you want. You are 4.29% of the opinion regarding this issue. And you are just as wrong about it as you can be. I'm here to represent the interests of Forsyth County, not the special interests of anyone else.

No Dave, We are not a shill for the City. We don't live in the City of Cumming.

We believe right is right and wrong is wrong no matter who is doing it or who wrong benefits.

Isn't the $100 million bond for Parks and recreation a desire not a need? The same as an aquatic center? That's a lot of money Dave which will go to property tax.

From now on, Don't hold public meetings in the conference room where they cannot be taped. Most people can't take off work in the middle of the day to attend county meetings.

Tom, Dick and Harry, if you would provide your real identity maybe the readers could take your comments seriously, or make a judgment about them based on your reputation in the community. Anonymity allows one who is faint-hearted to say anything without being held accountable.

Boys, you don't have to live in the city to be a shill for the city. You just have to keep posting like you do.

Make your case right here. Make your case that the $50 million in projects articulated by the city should be prioritized over the county's projects as defined by our capital improvement plan. Stop changing the debate when you lose the argument. Stick to the facts. You say what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. OK, make your case right here and now that the parking deck and aquatic center are NEEDS instead of WANTS.

Instead of veering off into a specifically different subject like the park and rec bond, stick to the issue at hand - SPLOST. That park and rec bond will stand or not with the voters on it's own merit. Your job is to make the case for the city right here and now regarding SPLOST. I'll bet you can't even name the projects and costs the city wanted us to fund.

Go ahead. Make the case for the city based on NEEDS. I dare you.

Of course it isn't possible to "prove" that you dislike Ford Gravitt, Dave. Judging from your web site, most reasonable people would conclude that you dislike Ford Gravitt. But then again, that would be impossible to "prove." You don't always say very nice things about your friends either.

In answer to your above question:

Dave, We think the City wanted money for phase II of the aquatic center. A parking deck on 3 + acres that the city already owns. Sides walks. Improvements to the intersection of Mary Alice Park Road. Widening of a section of Hwy. 9 in accordance with an agreement with the state. Widening Kelly Mill Road. Also, Samples Road. And improvements to Cumming City Park.

We think the parking deck is a good idea for the future. We think the aquatic center will be nice. Fixing the intersection at Mary Alice Park road is essential. City Park could stand some improvements. We think sidewalks are a great idea. All of these improvements will benefit the county as well.

But, we think that the BOC fully intended to not reach an agreement with the city regardless of needs or wants, so the city's share of the SPLOST would fall back to population which gives them just a little over 4%.

Thanks for making my point.

The aquatic center would be "nice".

"Nice" doesn't trump "need". Ever.

"The parking deck is good for the future."

Yeah, if you want to use it for the fairgrounds. But if you want it to be useful for the DOWNTOWN area, it is virtually useless. You put a parking deck equidistant to your buildings that have the most use (that means you place your parking deck in the middle of all your busy buildings).

You DON'T put it outside of all your main buildings, and you DON'T put it there for parking "for the judiciary" when the judiciary isn't going to be there in a few years. That is a WASTE of money.

Installing sidewalks on a road that is going to be widened is a WASTE of money, especially when NO ONE lives on the road section that sidewalks are being asked for!

You get an "F" for effort and content. Taking the city's arguments is a wasted effort, because they couldn't provide a good answer to our questions, either.

Remember this: We offered 10% to the mayor on three separate times during the SPLOST meeting that can be seen on this site. He turned it down three times. That is NOT in dispute. SO don't tell us that we didn't try to reach an agreement with the city, because that is just plain stupid.

By the way, boys, you made the following statement:

"Our commissioners behave the way they do because of their dislike for Ford Gravitt."

When asked to back it up with facts, you made the following statement:

"Of course it isn't possible to "prove" that you dislike Ford Gravitt, Dave. Judging from your web site, most reasonable people would conclude that you dislike Ford Gravitt."

Most people would be wrong - just like you. The bottom line here is that you stated an OPINION that was not based in FACT or REALITY. You can't find a way to believe that someone would actually behave in a principled manner (even though I have been publicly acting in that very same manner for almost 3 years now), so you just throw out an unfounded accusation that is not true.

I'll be blunt. The mayor is not even a blip on my radar screen unless he is trying to find a way to screw the residents of Forsyth County. He tries that - then we'll tangle. He tried it on water - he was stopped. He tried it on Pilgrim Mill, and he got away with it, but just barely. He tried it with SPLOST and he got stopped. He can defend the city all he wants, but he has to come up with a better argument than "We want it or we'll sue".

I distrust him, that is true, but I don't care one bit about him as long as he stays out of county business.

Your arguments are becoming more pathetic as they go on.

This is an interesting debate.

Why don't you let the city decide what is best for the city and what they need and don't need?

According to what we've read in the local papers, the city was never made a legitimate offer.

Yes, Ford Gravitt was asked and he said 10% wouldn't be acceptable. But, Ken Jarrad said the offer had to be made "with authority." The offer of 10 percent to the city failed to pass with the commissioners after a 3-2 vote. A valid offer was never made. It doesn't matter if you have Ford Gravitt on tape. No official offer was ever made. A video of that meeting isn't on the county web site.

"Commissioner Jim Harrell then made a motion to offer an eight percent protion to the city, which was seconded by Commission Chairman Charles Laughinghouse."

"But when it was time for discussion, Commissioner David Richard said the time for making a deal with the city had passed."

"The motion from Harrell failed to pass." (Forsyth Herald).

Why do you distrust Ford Gravitt? He made a list of his projects, the county didn't. We have no idea how the money will be spent. We want a complete list of projects so we can check them off the list as they are completed.

Boys, you can split hairs and try out your semantics argument all you want, but the video that is on cumminghome.com shows the mayor declining our offer of 10% three times.

Now, unlike the city, who likes to waste people's precious time and money, we don't waste time voting on something that will be summarily rejected by the other side, especially since they rejected the offer to our faces before it was voted on. Your problem is in relying on the local papers for your information. There has never been an article or editorial written in the local fishwrapper that doesn't put the city in a positive light and the county in a negative light when the two entities disagree. Find an objective source for your information next time.

I distrust the mayor because he has proven time and time again that leaglly binding documents don't mean a thing to him. We have a contract for finished water that is in effect until 2012. He pushed to get that extended without any modifications that would protect the county. He failed. He had a legally binding contract to widen Pilgrim Mill Rd with SPLOST 5 dollars, and he overran that project by 2-3 times the original cost. When he found that out, he got his lawyer to come up with another interpretation of the contract and said if you don't give me more money, I'll sue you for it. He spent the $6 million allocated for an aquatic center on land for a 4-year college, and has yet to buld an aquatic center, and now wants $8 million additional dollars for a "Phase 2" that was never contemplated by the voters in SPLOST 5. We ratified a sewer agreement with the city two or so years ago, and not months later the city came back and demanded $900,000 for additional sewer charges that were actually in the contract. The city failed to secure right-of-way for the extension of Marketplace Blvd, when every developer donates right-of-way for their road. The county had to shell out $1.9 million extra dollars that the city should have received for free from the developer, which made the land in question more valuable for the seller of that property. In short, he has shown no reason or actions by which I should trust him. If he desn't get his way, he threatens to sue us.

The city DID decide what projects they wanted, but the city is not the approving authority for SPLOST, as it is a COUNTY-wide tax. We get the last word on what can best be built and the city's projects were lacking in need. Tough noogies.

You'll get your list of projects from the county, as as already been stated multiple times ago, and you'll get them in plenty of time to review them and vote accordingly. Then you can sit around all day long and check off the projects as they are completed. By the way, how many projects has the city completed on the current SPLOST 5? Pilgrim Mill overruns and total mismanagement of that project have kept that from being completed. No aquatic center. No widening of Buford Dam. They had a handful of projects in the last SPLOST, and you have no problem with their lack of completion.

Stop being a shill for the city, and face reality.

Dave made the following statement because we said he doesn't like Ford Gravitt: "The bottom line here is that you stated an OPINION that was not based in FACT or REALITY."

On your web site you have called Ford Gravitt a "black-mailer" and an extortionist." Both of those are serious accusations. Yet, you get all bent out of shape because we say you "don't like" Ford Gravitt and demand that we "prove it."

Also Dave, we didn't get our information from the Forsyth County News ("local fishwrapper"). As we indicated above we got our information from the Forsyth Herald.

Boys, the problem is that I proved that Ford is a blackmailer and an extortionist. You had (and still don't have) no proof of your accusation.

Just like you have no answers for any of the arguments regarding SPLOST. You've lost this argument just like the city will lose their court case. The only difference is, you didn't have to spend a dime to find out how wrong you are. They, sadly, will be spending taxpayer dollars to defend and to pay us back for our attorney's fees when we win.

Well, Tom, Dick and Harry, whoever you are (apparently you still don’t have enough courage to identify yourself), I have few comments to add to this conversation.

You say: “there are some very rural counties where most of the population actually lives in the only large town in the county. Without checking, we will just say Tifton, GA. So, without an agreement, Tifton would receive the larger amount of SPLOST if no agreement was reached between the county and city.” Yes, if there is a county where a city is more than 50% of the population the city would receive more than 50% of the SPLOST. Tifton is 39.2 % of the Tift County population, so a population percentage would give Tifton 39.2% of the SPLOST. However, because Cumming is a tiny portion (4.29%) of Forsyth County , compared with Tifton in Tift County, Cumming deserves only 4.29% of the SPLOST.

At 15% Cumming today receives 3.5 times more than its deserved population share for both the SPLOST and the Local Option Sales Tax (LOST). I can find no other city in Georgia that comes anywhere close to that ridiculous multiplyer.

I too, don’t trust the mayor. I have never seen him negotiate anything in good faith with the county. In my view the mayor’s tactics have always been to demand, intimidate or blackmail the county into submission. The current 15% of the LOST and the SPLOST can be traced back to the 1995 LOST negotiation when the mayor told the county that if the county did not agree to give the city 15% of the LOST and 15% of the next SPLOST the city would allow the LOST to be discontinued. You see, there is a provision in the LOST legislation that discontinues the LOST if the city and county cannot agree on how to split it. Losing the LOST, of course, would cause an increase in property taxes. I have a more detailed explanation of this on my website at http://www.ronseder.com/lost_splost.htm.

Other examples are: the mayor changing the wholesale water priciing methodology to produce ridiculously high prices to the county, even after receiving a large chunk of the first SPLOST to invest in the city water system; and, the mayor refusing to work with the county to get more water from Lake Lanier unless the county agreed to buy finished water from the city for another ten years at an additional cost to the county of $36 million. You can see more about this last point on my website at http://www.ronseder.com/water_contract.htm.

You have questions about the identification of capital projects for the SPLOST. The Atlanta Journal Constitution published a lot about the Forsyth and Cumming projects on October 14, 2007. The title of the page is “Forsyth pushes special tax extension” on the web at http://www.ajc.com/search/content/metro/northfulton/stories/2007/10/14/forsythsplost1014ns.html, or you can go to ajc.com and search for the article by the title. It appears to me there is so much need in the county that the county will have a tough job determining which projects not to do with the next SPLOST.

You also have concerns about the fact that county commission work sessions conducted in a conference room are not recorded as are the regularly scheduled commission meetings in the big meeting room. I agree that it would be nice to also have the work sessions recorded. But, I think the Forsyth County Commission does a good job of making information available on their website. There is a library of past commission and other meeting videos, and meeting minutes on the website. There is a comprehensive presentaion of the county budget and financial reports on the county website, and a lot of other information helpful to Forsyth County citizens. Contrast that with the City. The are no video or audio recordings of city meetings on the city website, and no meeting minutes. Have you asked the city to make recordings of their meetingss available? There are no detailed financial budgets or reports on the city’s website. Have you asked the city to be as open with financial information as the county is? I am sure that if you do a comprehensive comparison of the city and county websites you will find the county to be way ahead of the city in having open government.

The county website is at http://www.forsythco.com/ and the city website is at http://cityofcumming.net/.

The city has for too long been getting rich at the expense of the county. There are three county commissioners (David Richard, Jim Harrell and Charlie Laughinghouse) who have at last produced a fair population based split of the SPLOST. There is more yet to be done regarding finances between the city and the county.

Thank you, Ron for pointing out some of the facts about this issue that I missed. It is clear that Tom, Dick and Harry have nothing but emotion to bring to this discussion - not facts.

Since Dick and Harry and I are not lawyers, let us just make a layman's prediction. Since Georgia law is what it is, we don't expect the city to get what it is asking for. We expect some sort of court ordered arbitration or mediation because of all the hostility between you and the city. But, we also think that is pointless. We don't know how the ballot is worded so we wouldn't have any idea whether it is legal or illegal.

But no, the county will not get their legal fees back from the city.

I am not a lawyer either, but my prediction is that the judge will throw thie city out of the courtroom and admonish them for wasting his or her time, and award legal fees to the county for having to defend such a frivilous lawsuit.

There will be no ordered arbitration, because the ballot is worded exactly the way it was 5 years ago, when the city had no objection to it then, and even supported the SPLOST vote.

I think you are right Tom, Dick and Harry. I think there is a strong possiblity that the SPLOST vote will be delayed until at least July 2008.

We think all parties involved are painting an overly optimistic rosie picture in light of the serious economic downturn we are facing. Gas, water shortage, the serious housing crash, threats of war, MRSA and on and on. We have decided to vote against a $100 million bond for parks and recreation. We still haven't decided about SPLOST. We don't want to tax ourselves out of house and home for improved quality of life.

Well boys, it is great to see you make decisions on ballot questions before all the information is available to you. That is a smart way to throw away a vote.

You can't tell me what the parks and rec proposed bond will mean to your property tax rate. You just made up your mind that it will cost you a lot of money by taxing you out of house and home without any figure whatsoever.

But let's be against something because you don't like the county commission and the way they handle things. Even though you haven't been able to articulate a single position with facts since this debate began. You've been wrong since day one on the SPLOST issue, so why should anyone believe you on the parks and rec bond? Right Lynn?

Wow, this is fun. I can't wait to see to ultimately wins this argument...Dave or Tom, Dick and Harry.

Dave: "But let's be against something because you don't like the county commission and the way they handle things."

Prove it! Prove that we don't like the commissioners.

OK, tell us how much the $100 million bond for Parks and recreation will raise our property tax and we will make our decision based on that. Can't? Can ya?

Let's get a jail and courthouse first and then we might consider voting for the "wants" of "special interest groups."

This one is TOO easy, Lynn.

First you start out with calling county buildings ugly and eyesores in the beautiful downtown.

Next you question every stance I make in favor of the county's position, but never achknowledge any of the points I make against the city, even though your facts are wrong on both what we are doing right and what the city is doing wrong.

Next, Lynn, you complain about no video being available for ONE stinking work session that we had, yet for some reason you never complain about the FACT that no video exists of ANY city meetings.

Next, Lynn, you fail to justify ANY NEED for each of the eight projects the city propose, yet think they are "nice", once again giving the city a different standard than the one you give the county.

Next, Lynn, you want to let the city decide what is best for them, when they have no constitutional authority in law to do so in this matter. The county has the only authority, and you don't like it.

Finally, Lynn, you want to "check off" every county project that is completed, but completely ignore the FACT that SPLOST money has been mis-spent on MULTIPLE projects in the current SPLOST on CITY projects. Where is your keen sense of "whats right is right and whats wrong is wrong", Lynn?

It is clear that you don't like the county or it's actions and that you are still holding a grudge against my being so outspoken when I do not agree with you. You continue to hide behind the stupid "Tom, Dick and Harry" moniker so that people won't see that you are the same person booted off another site for your idiotic rants, also done without any FACTS.

Your arguments are made purely from an emotional standpoint, not from a factual standpoint, which proves that you do not like the county commission.

We will no longer state our opinions concerning the SPLOST split between the City and County. The whole thing is pointless.

However, we do believe that Ford Gravitt spoke the truth when he said nazism is alive and well in the County Administration building:

The government of Nazi Germany was a fascist, totalitarian state. Totalitarian regimes, in contrast to a dictatorship, establish complete political, social, and cultural control over their subjects. Fascism is a form of right-wing totalitarianism which emphasizes the subordination of the individual to advance the interests of the state. Nazi fascism's ideology included the use of private organizations to stifle dissent and terrorize opposition.

Elitism - Philosophy that a narrow clique of the "best" or "most skilled" members of a given social group should have the power.

Totalitarianism - A form of government in which all societal resources are monopolized by the state in an effort to penetrate and control all aspects of public and private life, through the state's use of propaganda, terror, and technology.

The mayor's accusations of stooges and nazism are ridiculous and do not at all apply to Commissioners Richard, Harrell or Laughinghouse. I think the mayor might better direct those comments inward.

And those comments, Lynn, are exactly the reason why you were booted off the other site.

The stooges thing was funny. The Nazi thing is reprehensible. He, and you, should be ashamed of yourselves.

Several people were booted off that site because of your demands. You post on that site but continue to deny who you really are.

You would like to silence everyone who disagrees with you. You have a link on your web site to cancel the Forsyth County News.

Nazism? Getting too close for comfort. Evident by the mounting lawsuits against the county.

You say that Ford Gravitt is a black-mailer and an extortionist because he threatens to sue. In America we have a court system to settle disputes. That is not extortion or black-mail. Unless he has some reason to threaten you with prosecution

Sorry, Lynn, but I don't want to silence anyone. I want people to pay attention to the FACTS surrounding the actions of their governments, the city included. For 30 years, no one has questioned the actions of this city government, and for just about forever, the county commission has aided and abetted the city in granting sweetheart deals through incompetence or intimidation.

That stranglehold ended this year, and it was way too late.

Yeah, the mayor is a blackmailer. Every time (not once in a while, but every time) he doesn't get his outrageous demands met, he threatens to sue. Let's just ignore the FACT that no harm has befallen the city in any of the cases where he has htreatened to sue. Lets bury under the carpet that the reason he sues is over getting unreasonable deals extended or re-written to favor the city even more, without any justification. Lets ignore the FACT that this city is mis-spending money hand over fist and people are just NOW pointing out the obvious FACT that is right under their noses.

And now the mayor, and you, respond to a commission that is finally standing up for the people who elected them, and call us Nazis; the most vile and reprehensible monsters in the 20th century who murdered millions of innocent people, started a war designed to take over the world, and created a culture of fear throughout their own country.

And you and the mayor call us Nazis.

You can disagree with me all day long, but if you think you are going to get a free shot at me if you come at me in ignorance, think again. So far my record in just under 3 years as commissioner is one of the best in recent memory when it comes to consistency, accomplishments, and open government. All because I defend the rights of the individual and don't bow down to the glory of the power brokers in this county.

And for that, sick, twisted individuals call me and my fellow commissioners Nazis.

One final point, Lynn. Once again you are wrong on the FACTS. The number of lawsuits against the county has never been lower.

If people disagree with you, you take it personally. You say,"nobody is getting a free shot at me." Then you get ugly with a capital "ug" and go off on a personal attack. Evident by your own website. You shouldn't run for public office if you get offended so easily.

Lawsuits arise over SPLOST between counties and cities all the time. It's not like the City of Cumming is unusual. Stephens county splits their SPLOST 65/35 with the city of Toccoa and they are still not satisified.

That is why we think SPLOST law should be revised to allow cities to levy their own sales tax through a vote by the citizens. Then, what is collected in the city belongs to the city and what is collected in the unincorporated parts of the county belong to the county. We don't know if that would mean more money for the city or less. But, at least it would be fair.

Tom, Dick and Harry, or Lynn, or whoever you are, you ignore the facts and act as though the relative size of a city in a county should have no bearing on the percentage of the SPLOST split between cities and the counties in which they are contained.

Your most recent example is to compare Cumming/Forsyth County to Toccoa/Stephens County. You said: “Stephens county splits their SPLOST 65/35 with the city of Toccoa and they are still not satisified.” In a statement like that it is important to recognize that Toccoa has 36.7% of the Stephens County population and it is to receive 35% of the next SPLOST, that was accepted by the voters this month. Cumming has only 4.29% of Forsyth County’s population and the Board of Commissioners voted to give Cumming 4.29% of the next SPLOST.

You say Toccoa is not satisfied, but the city and county did finally did agree to the 35/65 split of the SPLOST and there is not, and was not, a lawsuit involved.

Cumming is getting a fair deal at 4.29% of the SPLOST. Cumming has been unjustly enriched by the enormous sales tax percentages they have been receiving.

Commissioner Richard, this isn't about you.

Dick and Harry and I do not live in the city. We don't know where Lynn lives.

OK Ron, Whatever!!

You seem to know all your "facts" including the population of every county and city in the State of Georgia. You have a letter in today's Forsyth County News praising "the three stooges." This is your article on Cumminghome.com which we are commenting about. You have your own website on this subject.

Linda Ledbetter said she thought that the "three stooges" gave in to pressure from outside groups.

Now people are calling for the abolishment of the city. Great work Ron. Maybe we can put the county courthouse and jail in your subdivision (or wherever you live) and the county administration building as well and call it the "county seat." Then prehaps you will appreciate the percentage the county gives you based on population.

OK Whatever!!

I like decisions, involving hundreds of millions of tax dollars, to be based on facts rather than on emotion, friendships, intimidation or personal gain.

The facts I am using are available to everyone on the Internet if they care to seek them out.

Of course, you probably don’t want to quote the facts because the facts do not support your argument.

The only way I have to influence any elected official is clear-headed reasoning and logic. Of course, for that to have an influence, the elected official has to be open minded, willing to listen and objectively think about it.

By the way, combining the city and county into one government is worth some study, so I commend those who are thinking that way.

Lynn, you keep missing the point (as usual). And you have no idea what "fair" means. Under your scenario, the city should collect their own sales tax and keep it and use it for themselves. But what happens to the county, who has to provide roads and infrastructure to get to the city? The county roads become clogged and backed up, and there is no money to fix them or improve them because the city gets to keep all their money for themselves. But the city is the one generating the tax base because they can annex any commercial property they want to into their city with little or no objection by the county, which this city has done to perfection. How much of Marketplace Blvd, which contains much of the sales tax revenue generating properties in the city, actually belonged to the city before it was developed?

Answer: Almost none of it.

Once the county provided the infrastructure to allow for commercial development, guess who came and annexed their juicy parts?

Answer: the city.

So don't talk to me, or anyone else for that matter, about "fair". You have no concept of the rules under which this government has to operate, and you refuse to take the time to learn them.

Oh, and Lynn? When people bite me or the county I have sworn to represent, I bite back. Too bad. Life is tough. Get a helmet. You'd think you would have learned by now, but that is too much to ask for with you.

And Ava, of course this isn't about me. This is about finally getting an equitable split of SPLOST taxes for the residents of Forsyth County. It is a shame that people have to resort to the term Nazi in order to get their point across. That particular word has no place in this discussion.

You sir, are the ignorant one. Yet, you accuse everyone else of being ignorant. There are no level one projects on the ballot. We need a jail and courthouse because they are mandated by law. SPLOST was designed to cover these types of project to take the burden off of property owners.

The BOC listed a parking deck for the city on SPLOST VI, but didn't allow enough money to build it. That is illegal.

What is SPLOST?

The SPLOST law, enacted by Georgia legislators in 1985, authorizes a county tax of 1% on items subject to the state sales tax for funding capital projects. It is neither a municipal tax, nor a joint county-municipal tax such as the regular Local Option Sales Tax (LOST). As a county tax, only the Board of Commissioners can authorize SPLOST.

The county controls the money, which must be used for specific capital outlays (operations and maintenance expenditures are not authorized) such as courthouses, jails, roads and bridges. Projects financed via SPLOST are intended to benefit the county as a whole—either standing alone or in combination with other county capital outlay projects or municipal capital outlay projects.

What is listed in the referendum?

Proposed projects, time period, and maximum dollar amount to be raised for all projects must be listed on the ballot. If road, street and bridge projects are included, a separate maximum dollar amount and time period for these projects must be specified. If debt is to be issued for purposes other than road, street and bridge purposes, the ballot must state the amount of general obligation debt to be issued. The language on the ballot must be specific enough to provide fair notice to voters as to which projects will be funded. If municipalities are involved, their names and their projects must also be identified.

Lynn, Lynn, Lynn.

1. There is NO mandate for a jail or a courthouse. SPLOST could be used to fund these, but why shouldn't property owners fund them with tax dollars when it is not our visitors who are more likely to use the jail or courthouse, but our own residents? After all, the size of the jail is always based on number of RESIDENTS, not the number of VISITORS.

2. There is no mandate for level 1 projects in SPLOST if you don't have any to build. We don't.

3. The mayor and city were asked twice, once just before the meeting where we voted on the final ballot language, if they still wanted the parking deck listed as their first priority project. They had every opportunity to change their list to conform to the dollar amount they knew they were going to get. They insisted that the parking deck was the project to list on the ballot. Illegal? NO. Stupid? YES.

Now, do you have any more arguments you want me to shoot down for you?

If you don't have any level one projects to build, then why did the BOC spend for 33 acres of land to build a jail.

Frankly Dave, we are getting tired of this. Let the court settle the dispute. We're afraid that we can't obey Steve's rule to "please be civil" any longer. See you in the funny papers Dave.

Lynn, Lynn, Lynn.

We are not MANDATED to build a jail. You were wrong again. A case could be made that we should build one, but there are no mandates in place that require us to build. That issue will be placed in front of voters once the final design and full cost proposals have been finalized, and not one second beforehand.

And the court will decide this SPLOST issue. A majority of this board (I believe) feels that case law needs to be settled on this issue, and that negotiation which prevents that (as in the Dawson case) is not in the best future interests of Forsyth or other counties. You and your cronies in the city won't like the verdict, but that's life.

Anyway Dave, we said we are tired of talking about this. So, don't answer us again. Please stop calling us Lynn. No offense Lynn, you must be one hell of a nice lady to put up with Dave.

Riiiiight. . .

You've never met him, never talked to him, etc., etc., etc.

Yet you can call us Nazis, defend the city at every turn, ignore the FACTS sitting in front of your eyes, make up law that doesn't exist and try every way, shape or form to discredit the county and favor the city in this issue. Wait ! Maybe you aren't Lynn Pruitt. Maybe you're the Forsyth County News "editorial" staff.

And about our mandated meeting? You'll note that no proposal was made at that time, and we simply asked why the projects the city wanted were justified in their minds. Their justification, and yours, fell flat on it's face.

This argument still gets around to NEED vs. WANT. I don't pay for WANT, and everyone defending the city still can't justify NEED for the city projects. If they could, I'd have funded them in a heartbeat, because I was elected to follow the law and represent Forsyth County, not to bow down at the altar of H. Ford Gravitt.

Oh whatever Dave, you just never quit do you? Go ahead, be stingy and hateful, who cares? Most people are worried about their own house and home and the possiblity NO water. That is a scary thought.

Sonny Perdue is having a prayer meeting at the state capital for rain. He is expected to be met with protesters. (seperation of church and state) Last year when he held a prayer meeting for rain in Cumming, it started raining and rained for days on end. We are thinking about attending the Prayer service, at least we won't be beating our heads against a brick wall.

Tom, Dick and Harry, or Whatever,

Because you will not give your real identity it’s hard to seriously consider what you have to say. But then again, if we knew who you really are it might be impossible to take you seriously.

Are you upset because David Richard will not give you the last word after you make another accusation? I thought you said a couple times that you had stopped, but you keep coming back.

Dave never gives anyone the last word Ron. We are just plain ole Tom, Dick and Harry. Take it or leave it.

"Every Tom, Dick and Harry" can refer to the general public.

The expression appears in cartoons of the 1930s and 1940s, much of whose humor dates to at least the vaudeville era.

Tom, Dick and Harry, or Whatever,

I don’t take your last comments seriously either. I fail to see humor in any of your comments in this series.

Since you do not have the courage to identify yourself, I will select “leave it” from the choice you gave.