Your presentation seemed to imply that a property owner's rights are absolute and unrestricted. How then does government,such as county government, dare to interfere with owner's rights? Does the constitution, its amendments, judicial rulings or legislative action grant the states and from there the counties, police powers to restrict and/or limit property rights?
Obviously there is a balance between the rights of property owners and the rights of neighboring owners, however, when in conflict or not expressly articulated, the property owner gets the Constitutional nod.
I have always maintained that if you want a say in how the property next door to you is to be developed, the only sure way for that to happen is to buy the property yourself. Otherwise, your role is limited and subservient to the property owner's role.
A careful chack of re-zonings in my district over the past 3 1/2 years will bear that axiom out.
Forsyth County has become a constitutional issue. Many people believe that a Board of Commissioners can deny a re-zoning because of a "new army in town" or a "full house," etc. etc. In other words, "mob rule."
Many people moved here for the rural atmosphere. They want it to stay rural. Land owners may want to sell. However, I have seen several subdivisions started and abandoned here in S. Forsyth. It's unbelievable.
I had friends who bought a house in Newnam many years ago. They bought the lot next to their house. As Dave said, if you want to control what goes next door, "buy it." They had a golf course behind their house The subdivision was called "Newnan Country Club Estates." So, I'm pretty sure the subdivision owns the golf course and will never have to worry about it being sold.
Dear Cumminghome.com: I love Dave's show. It's bound to be a great success and attract viewers.
Are not the police powers of the state such as zoning recognized as inherently valid? Are not the rights of the neighboring properties equal? Do my property rights allow me to use my property in a way that would harm my neighbors rights? Does my neighbor whose land holdings might be larger than mine have the right to use his property in a way that will harm my rights? Generally speaking, isn't zoning in place to prevent the uses of land that might be harmful to others? Don't legislative acts such as a state's zoning procedures law and a county's unified development code articulate how zoning laws are to be applied? Doesn't the federal and state constitutions, state and county laws allow me the same property rights and protections as my larger neighbor?
You have the same property rights for YOUR property as does your neighbor for THEIR property. You do NOT have the same rights towards THEIR property as they do for THEIRS.
And the burden of proof of "harm" in their actions is on YOU, not on them.
Here is where we disagree. In an application for rezoning the burden is upon the applicant/landowner not the neighbor. Since the current zoning is presumed valid the APPLICANT MUST PROVE by clear and convincing evidence that the current zoning is a significant detriment, and insubstantially related to the public health, safety, morality and welfare. The significant detriment test is not that property might be worth more under another zoning but rather does the property have a reasonable economic use as presently zoned. The public health, safety, morality and welfare portion only needs to be addressed after the applicant has PROVEN the significant detriment portion. There is nothing in the Ga zoning procedures law or the UDC that calls for the neighboring property owner to prove anything!
Dave-
This is great stuff and I couldn't agree with you more. Doing this kind of stuff is a much better thing for you than being a commissioner. I will enjoy more videos like this but I simply have to ask---how can you run a piece like this one minute and then support Laughinghouse the next? Laughinghouse doesn't adhere to a word of what you just said in this video. I was disappointed during these elections that you seemed to take your stances and throw your support based on political posturing rather than the principles you've touted in the past (like this one).
Amen gajackson. Mr. Richard, keep doing videos like this one, this piece was great. Oh and Mr. Quinn the moral of the story is Buyer Beware and do your homework before purchasing property. Period. Research the records before you make the purchase. I did, because I was duped once long ago in another state. Never again.
Relax Mr. Quinn. Dave and I are not talking about the golf course. Dave voted against the re-zoning of the golf course because the proposed development didn't conform to the surrounding property. But of course, here in Forsyth County, rarely does a subdivision fit in with the surrounding property. Much of it is still pasture, farm land and forest. But most of the time, it isn't the large landowner next door who opposes a subdivision, it is another subdivision next door. But, landowners have complex rights, including the right to build on, sell, subdivide, grant easements, restrict assess and exploit the natural resourses on their land.
People say we don't have the infrastructure for more development. But isn't that the job of government...to build the infrastructure with the money paid in taxes by the people who wish to move here? Not buy golf course views for a select few.
Gwinnett County lost a rezoning lawsuit for denying a rezoning due to lack of schools. The court ruled it is the county's job to build the schools for its population. I would think that the same goes for roads. Correct me if I'm wrong Dave.
I think you'll find that I have voted against Charlie Laughinghouse's motions far more than any other commissioner on this board. That I was in lock-step with him, or anyone else, was just another lie foisted upon the electorate when the FACTS didn't agree with that contention.
Talk about cheap thrills...I have inadvertently wandered into the Twilight Zone. One minute moral enemies who are ready to strangle and the next kiss up like I have never witnessed before.
All that seems to be missing is a good old fashioned polygraph challenge. Anyone here up to the confrontation? Forsyth County....where truth is as elusive as one honest politician. Just call me the “Darwinanator”
Respectfully Jim, yeah, you do have to prove his actions will harm you. Otherwise, your claim of such is moot. You can't make a claim without backing that claim up.
Lynn, you're right that we can't deny a rezoning simply because the infrastructure isn't there to support it, except for the rare instance with water. I say rare, because we can run water lines all day long, but if there is no overall water supply to put in the lines, we don't have to approve something that can't get water. That falls under public safety at some point.
Based on the golf course owners offering price I am totally and completely against the county even considering its purchase. If they would like to develop their property consistent with the low density that surrounds it, so be it.
I applaud Mr. Richard here. I thoroughly enjoyed hearing, and agree with, all of his comments in the video. As far as not being in lock-step with Laughinghouse, I agree with that too.
I found David Richard to vote in the interest of the property owner over mob rule many times, regardless of what would have been politically expedient.
The "slow growth" majority seems to think that they can do pretty much whatever they want because the majority of the people want it. Too often they'll use YOUR tax dollars to fight against an individual's rights. It is not always in the long-term interest of the citizens do do what the majority wants.
We are not a democracy. We are a constitutional republic. Big difference here. If we were a true democracy, then women would more than likely still not be able to vote, blacks would still be segregated, etc.
When politicians vote against the rights of the individual, in favor of political gain from the majority, then lawsuits are filed and lost. Who pays for the litigation and damages? We all do.
It's time for the "not in my backyard" crowd to stop asking all of us to finance their backyard views. Kudos Mr. Richard for attempting to educate the ones that feel that it is government's job to slow or control growth. Local government's true role is to provide public safety, and facilitate the needs of the public infrastructure wise, while protecting the rights of the individual.
"When a representative democracy operates in accordance with a constitution that limits the powers of the government and guarantees fundamental rights to all citizens, this form of government is a constitutional democracy.
The rights of minorities do not depend upon the goodwill of the majority and cannot be eliminated by a majority vote.
Now if we can just kept David W. Richard busy creating his comedy show maybe he won't have time to attack innocent Forsyth County families, waste $239,000.00 of our tax dollars, or tell all those big ole lies he enjoys doing with so much frequency.
If I thought that would have helped to keep him off our unsuspecting innocent Citizens then I would have suggested something like that long before now. I've noticed he has stopped libeling folks on his own site. Maybe the wind blew something his way.
Since Dave is so media popular now, maybe he can also post additional sideshows here such as “Skin the Monkey, Darwin Turns On Defenseless Fauna”, or perhaps “I’m Living the Nightmare And Lying To Tell About It”, or even “Reasons Why I Can’t Take No Stinking Polygraph Challenge, Home Edition”. Yea, that's the ticket all right!
Hi Double Davids....Dave R, when is your next episode of "Dave Richard just won't shut up?" Are you going to do a jail episode? That would really be interesting. I don't think the jail will pass this time. Somebody has got to get this jail thing right before the voters will approve it.
Yes, both topics concerning county spending and budgets and the county jail will be very interesting.
I know people who are concerned about losing their jobs with the county because of the budget deficit.
When the county bought 33 acres of land on Veteran's Memrorial Blvd for a new county jail, I didn't know exactly how the 33 acres lies. I was thinking the jail would be built well away from those condominiums.
I'm not concerned about the jail being in view of the fairgrounds.
Comments
34 comment(s) on this page. Add your own comment below.
Wow! I love your show Dave! It's fantastic!
Thanks, Lynn.
The credit goes out to the folks at cumminghome.com for making 3 minutes of pretty good commentary 3 minutes of pretty good entertainment.
Tell your friends.
Great show and very well said. Dave don't ever shut-up bring on the knowlege about our government.
Do the show weekly, Dave.
The rant with brant has a rival. I knew Dave would not be beat.
Dave I got to hand it to you, you have delivered this message with great wit and humor and I knew you would not shut up for long. Great Vid!
Yes, I'll tell my friends about your show Dave. I hope you will continue the show and expand it. Can I be a guest on your show? (just kidding, ha, ha)
Lynn, that is entirely up to the folks at cumminghome.com (the continuing the segment part).
Dear Commissioner,
Your presentation seemed to imply that a property owner's rights are absolute and unrestricted. How then does government,such as county government, dare to interfere with owner's rights? Does the constitution, its amendments, judicial rulings or legislative action grant the states and from there the counties, police powers to restrict and/or limit property rights?
Jim,
Obviously there is a balance between the rights of property owners and the rights of neighboring owners, however, when in conflict or not expressly articulated, the property owner gets the Constitutional nod.
I have always maintained that if you want a say in how the property next door to you is to be developed, the only sure way for that to happen is to buy the property yourself. Otherwise, your role is limited and subservient to the property owner's role.
A careful chack of re-zonings in my district over the past 3 1/2 years will bear that axiom out.
Very well said Dave,
Forsyth County has become a constitutional issue. Many people believe that a Board of Commissioners can deny a re-zoning because of a "new army in town" or a "full house," etc. etc. In other words, "mob rule."
Many people moved here for the rural atmosphere. They want it to stay rural. Land owners may want to sell. However, I have seen several subdivisions started and abandoned here in S. Forsyth. It's unbelievable.
I had friends who bought a house in Newnam many years ago. They bought the lot next to their house. As Dave said, if you want to control what goes next door, "buy it." They had a golf course behind their house The subdivision was called "Newnan Country Club Estates." So, I'm pretty sure the subdivision owns the golf course and will never have to worry about it being sold.
Dear Cumminghome.com: I love Dave's show. It's bound to be a great success and attract viewers.
Dear Commissioner,
Are not the police powers of the state such as zoning recognized as inherently valid? Are not the rights of the neighboring properties equal? Do my property rights allow me to use my property in a way that would harm my neighbors rights? Does my neighbor whose land holdings might be larger than mine have the right to use his property in a way that will harm my rights? Generally speaking, isn't zoning in place to prevent the uses of land that might be harmful to others? Don't legislative acts such as a state's zoning procedures law and a county's unified development code articulate how zoning laws are to be applied? Doesn't the federal and state constitutions, state and county laws allow me the same property rights and protections as my larger neighbor?
You have the same property rights for YOUR property as does your neighbor for THEIR property. You do NOT have the same rights towards THEIR property as they do for THEIRS.
And the burden of proof of "harm" in their actions is on YOU, not on them.
Thanks Dave - Thanks Cumminghome.com. This is a great piece, I hope to see more "Dave Richard won't shut up".
Dear Commissioner,
Here is where we disagree. In an application for rezoning the burden is upon the applicant/landowner not the neighbor. Since the current zoning is presumed valid the APPLICANT MUST PROVE by clear and convincing evidence that the current zoning is a significant detriment, and insubstantially related to the public health, safety, morality and welfare. The significant detriment test is not that property might be worth more under another zoning but rather does the property have a reasonable economic use as presently zoned. The public health, safety, morality and welfare portion only needs to be addressed after the applicant has PROVEN the significant detriment portion. There is nothing in the Ga zoning procedures law or the UDC that calls for the neighboring property owner to prove anything!
Excuse me Mr. Quinn...That is a bunch of bull.
IN THE FUTURE:
Dave for State Legislature
Dave for U.S. Congressman
Dave- This is great stuff and I couldn't agree with you more. Doing this kind of stuff is a much better thing for you than being a commissioner. I will enjoy more videos like this but I simply have to ask---how can you run a piece like this one minute and then support Laughinghouse the next? Laughinghouse doesn't adhere to a word of what you just said in this video. I was disappointed during these elections that you seemed to take your stances and throw your support based on political posturing rather than the principles you've touted in the past (like this one).
Amen gajackson. Mr. Richard, keep doing videos like this one, this piece was great. Oh and Mr. Quinn the moral of the story is Buyer Beware and do your homework before purchasing property. Period. Research the records before you make the purchase. I did, because I was duped once long ago in another state. Never again.
Lynn,
Please go to www.atlantaregional.com/documents/olsonbasiczoning.pdf and then decide
Lynn,
There is an underscore after olson and again after basic
Relax Mr. Quinn. Dave and I are not talking about the golf course. Dave voted against the re-zoning of the golf course because the proposed development didn't conform to the surrounding property. But of course, here in Forsyth County, rarely does a subdivision fit in with the surrounding property. Much of it is still pasture, farm land and forest. But most of the time, it isn't the large landowner next door who opposes a subdivision, it is another subdivision next door. But, landowners have complex rights, including the right to build on, sell, subdivide, grant easements, restrict assess and exploit the natural resourses on their land.
People say we don't have the infrastructure for more development. But isn't that the job of government...to build the infrastructure with the money paid in taxes by the people who wish to move here? Not buy golf course views for a select few.
Gwinnett County lost a rezoning lawsuit for denying a rezoning due to lack of schools. The court ruled it is the county's job to build the schools for its population. I would think that the same goes for roads. Correct me if I'm wrong Dave.
gajackson,
I think you'll find that I have voted against Charlie Laughinghouse's motions far more than any other commissioner on this board. That I was in lock-step with him, or anyone else, was just another lie foisted upon the electorate when the FACTS didn't agree with that contention.
Talk about cheap thrills...I have inadvertently wandered into the Twilight Zone. One minute moral enemies who are ready to strangle and the next kiss up like I have never witnessed before.
All that seems to be missing is a good old fashioned polygraph challenge. Anyone here up to the confrontation? Forsyth County....where truth is as elusive as one honest politician. Just call me the “Darwinanator”
Respectfully Jim, yeah, you do have to prove his actions will harm you. Otherwise, your claim of such is moot. You can't make a claim without backing that claim up.
Lynn, you're right that we can't deny a rezoning simply because the infrastructure isn't there to support it, except for the rare instance with water. I say rare, because we can run water lines all day long, but if there is no overall water supply to put in the lines, we don't have to approve something that can't get water. That falls under public safety at some point.
To whom it may concern,
Based on the golf course owners offering price I am totally and completely against the county even considering its purchase. If they would like to develop their property consistent with the low density that surrounds it, so be it.
I applaud Mr. Richard here. I thoroughly enjoyed hearing, and agree with, all of his comments in the video. As far as not being in lock-step with Laughinghouse, I agree with that too.
I found David Richard to vote in the interest of the property owner over mob rule many times, regardless of what would have been politically expedient.
The "slow growth" majority seems to think that they can do pretty much whatever they want because the majority of the people want it. Too often they'll use YOUR tax dollars to fight against an individual's rights. It is not always in the long-term interest of the citizens do do what the majority wants.
We are not a democracy. We are a constitutional republic. Big difference here. If we were a true democracy, then women would more than likely still not be able to vote, blacks would still be segregated, etc.
When politicians vote against the rights of the individual, in favor of political gain from the majority, then lawsuits are filed and lost. Who pays for the litigation and damages? We all do.
It's time for the "not in my backyard" crowd to stop asking all of us to finance their backyard views. Kudos Mr. Richard for attempting to educate the ones that feel that it is government's job to slow or control growth. Local government's true role is to provide public safety, and facilitate the needs of the public infrastructure wise, while protecting the rights of the individual.
Well said Dave.
"When a representative democracy operates in accordance with a constitution that limits the powers of the government and guarantees fundamental rights to all citizens, this form of government is a constitutional democracy.
The rights of minorities do not depend upon the goodwill of the majority and cannot be eliminated by a majority vote.
Dave, I think you may have just found your calling. Serious about that. I hope Steve makes this a regular part of cumminghome.com.
Great job..top notch!
Now if we can just kept David W. Richard busy creating his comedy show maybe he won't have time to attack innocent Forsyth County families, waste $239,000.00 of our tax dollars, or tell all those big ole lies he enjoys doing with so much frequency.
If I thought that would have helped to keep him off our unsuspecting innocent Citizens then I would have suggested something like that long before now. I've noticed he has stopped libeling folks on his own site. Maybe the wind blew something his way.
Since Dave is so media popular now, maybe he can also post additional sideshows here such as “Skin the Monkey, Darwin Turns On Defenseless Fauna”, or perhaps “I’m Living the Nightmare And Lying To Tell About It”, or even “Reasons Why I Can’t Take No Stinking Polygraph Challenge, Home Edition”. Yea, that's the ticket all right!
(yawn) - What? Milum is typing in error again? Someone please wake me when something meaningful is posted by him. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Hi Double Davids....Dave R, when is your next episode of "Dave Richard just won't shut up?" Are you going to do a jail episode? That would really be interesting. I don't think the jail will pass this time. Somebody has got to get this jail thing right before the voters will approve it.
Lynn,
I'm looking at county spending and budgets for the next one, which I assume will film in a couple of weeks to be shown in September.
The jail is something I will probably tackle for the October segment if the producers OK it.
All this is up in the air until I hear from Steve Carter if he will be continuing the segment or not.
Steve Carter -- PLEASE let Mr. Richard make a production concerning the Jail!!!
Yes, both topics concerning county spending and budgets and the county jail will be very interesting.
I know people who are concerned about losing their jobs with the county because of the budget deficit.
When the county bought 33 acres of land on Veteran's Memrorial Blvd for a new county jail, I didn't know exactly how the 33 acres lies. I was thinking the jail would be built well away from those condominiums.
I'm not concerned about the jail being in view of the fairgrounds.
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