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Why is this video all chopped up???

Steve Carter - Why are you afraid to put what Kim Pruitt said in the video. Are yo being threatened or controlled?

The best thing about the press is that you can provide the TRUTH.

If you are afraid to present ALL the fact, then why present any??

This was supposed to be information for the public. Why are you keeping information from the public?

WHAT ARE YOU AFFRIAD OF??

The people need Cost comparisons from other counties and I believe a member of the audience did do some number crunching and presented the numbers. Whatever happened to saving taxpayer dollars rather than spending away our money on 'state of the art'? I feel very badly to our neighbors that have to live very adjacent to the new 'state of the art' jail. My prediction is that this will be a NO vote in November.

The video did not capture the essence of what happened.

There was alot of information provided so that the citizens could make an informed decission about the jail.

This video does the community a disservice by not providing some of the edited comments.

CENSORSHIP belongs in communist countries, not in America !!

What you have done is WRONG !!!!!

Ms Pruitt, If you were smart enough, you (or anyone in Wyngate) would have taken a video recorder yourself. Again, if you were smart.

Censorship is convenient for those who

(a) do not understand that it has to do with governments (not a privately operated web business).

(b) who do not use their real name when they post.

Stop spending taxpayer dollars on frivolous lawsuits - i.e. corps of engineers, and then buy out the neighbors that would be adjacent to the jail. Better yet, make a tent city in the middle of nowhere, that will guarrantee a low recidivism rate and let's not make it too comfortable for the inmates please.

Lets use the state park land by the Chatahoochee river club.

Sounds to me like sour grapes. Listening to what video was posted made on thing abundantly clear.

The residents who live next to the site are not involved in the community. If they were, they would certainly have known this jail was coming. Instead, they wait until they're slapped in the face with it, then spend the entire meeting crying about how they were never told. In fact, I'd venture a guess that a significant portion of the county has known where the jail was going for months. The county certainly made no secret of it.

I especially liked the guy who asked Paxton if he'd like a jail in his back yard. Umm...sorry buddy, that's not your back yard, it's county property.

Given that the other side of their property faces the butt end of an aging shopping center, a nice new jail might actually look beter. Quick, for five bonus points, name the grocery store that used to be where Hobby Lobby is-for 15, name the grocery store that was there before the center expanded.

I do agree that some significant cost comparing is in order.

ip- imagine the red tape involved in purchasing land from the dept of natural resources!

Wilson, wasn't that a walmart where hobby lobby now sits?

I will try for the 15 points-
Was it a Ben Franklin?

Steve Carter Aug 13, 2008 4:08pm [ 8 ] Over the next several weeks, there will be lots of articles written about the Jail. I'm sure your specific concerns will be covered. This article was only about the opposition to the location. You are also welcome to write an article yourself. We will be happy to publish it.

DM: wouldn't it be much easier Steve to just post the entire video. Some of us know what's on it so cough it up. You’re a big boy and so are these readers. We deserve the truth unedited. You post entire commission meetings so stir it up dude. Remember a picture is worth a thousand words....and a picture with words....well you get it.

AWESOME STEVE!

Thataboy, I knew you had it inya Steve! Nothing like some good ole in ya face discussions to get the ball rolling! We look forward to it but I'll bet you some don't!

Steve continues to provide a phenomenol gift to the voters of Forsyth County: video footage of the detention center public forum. Thank you!

cumminghome.com is the only resource that takes the time to take video footage of important meetings, forums, debates, etc & posts the footage on their site to help educate the voters.

Accepting the role of editor requires that person to use his/her best judgement to provide concise information. Although this goes against our 'Jerry Springer' culture, please pause before attacking a person's integrity. Consider focusing your energy on registering people to vote, education (promoting attendance in the next forum on Aug 26th) & encouraging people to vote.

Instead of attacking Steve, here are some ideas for the residents of Wyngate to consider:

~~How can you mobilize your neighborhood to improve the following numbers?~~

• 54.9% of Forsyth Residents are Registered

• 16.8% of Registered Voters Chose to Vote during the July General Primary

• 8.28% of Registered Voters Chose to Vote during the August Primary Runoff

• 0.019% of Forsyth attended the Detention Center Public Forum

• 8.9% of the Wyngate Residents attended the Dentention Center Public Forum

(% are based on: 158,914 2007 Census Estimate, 87,254 Registered Voters, 30 People Attending Forum, 168 Wyngate Homeowners (estimated 336 potential Voters)

% corrrection!

76.1% of Forsyth Residents (18 & older) are Registered to Vote

(the initial 54.9% figure was incorrect because it was based on the entire population of 158,914....instead of the (72.1%) population who is of voting age...18 years & older. I do not know how many felons & non-citizens live in Forsyth County; therefore, there is a small margin of error.)

My main point.... how can we as a community: * help increase the amount of registered voters * help increase voter education * help encourage people to vote

Dear Neighbors, It is not too late to get informed about what willl be on the ballot regarding the jail in November. I know several folks getting out flyers and making phone calls to their friends and neighbors about the jail issue. Does everyone realize how close this proposed jail will be to Otwell Middle, Cumming Elementary and Central High School? Ask yourself if the jail is costing the taxpayers too much...please look at the numbers and learn what other counties have spent on jails. Please consider voting NO in November. Encourage everyone you know to vote.

steve carter Aug 14, 2008 7:58am [ 19 ] David, if there is something in this video that you would like me to highlight, please let me know what it is. I honestly don't know what you are talking about when you make statements like "We look forward to it but I'll bet you some don't" My only motivation for shortening the video was to make it more consumable for casual reader. I remember a few statements about illegal aliens and about the jail being more costly than the status quo. Are one of these what you are looking for?

DM: Steve you might have taken my responses in the wrong light. I think that your site is a wonderful addition to this community. I’m sure there are many who are jealous of your success. Providing this media outlet has not only been much more than beneficial for educating the Taxpayers on pressing local issues but an excellent place to advertise as well.

I not only spend a lot of my time reading your articles and those of other writers but reading and absorbing the ads as well. It is always interesting to see who supports your site by their ad dollars and how well these business fare at increasing their sales, which I am hearing is great. I urge all who read this to place an ad with Steve to monetarily support the fine work he does here. In fact, I’ll put my money where my big mouth is. I’ll spend some money with www.cumminghome.com next week to show my utmost sincerity.

The most pressing thing that was not discussed in depth, that I was under the impression was, is the real cost compared to other completed facilities in Georgia. I am in discussions with several people on why this new jail is projected to cost for 480 beds many millions of dollars over what Hall County spend for a 1000 bed facility. I don’t have all the figures as of yet but at first glance there surely seems to be a whopper of a difference. A scary difference! The projected articles in rebuttal you spoke of earlier will most assuredly be forthcoming.

The statement by me that you obviously mistook as a stab at you for possibly being motivated to be evasive by not posting the complete video was not meant to be that way and most certainly not directed towards you at all but I was referring to those who are responsible for the cost projections on the new jail. I am truly apologetic if you interpreted it that way.

Hopefully those of us who are not nearly as trusting as some will dig out these new jail build numbers so we can discuss the dissimilarities about cost.

Thank you very much Steve for the community service you provide.

How come all the commissioners did not come to the town hall meeting to field questions from the residents?

Because some of us didn't skip out on our called meeting / executive session at 5:00 like some others did, and we still had work to do following those meetings.

And these informational meetings are for the public to ask questions about the jail construction, cost, and capabilities. Those are best answered by the people who put those plans together, that being the Sheriff, County Manager and the company reps who designed it.

David, you are a liar. If Charlie, Linda and Rhonda were at this meeting then you could have been there too. You were posting here on this site at 7:23 so you must not have been too busy in that "meeting".

On top of being a liar you are a chicken. You can't face people in person and only have "courage" when hiding behind your computer.

David Milum has cornered you and proved you are a lying coward and you have just validated it yet again.

Please, won't you just leave?

I listened carefully to this tape and there were some questions the Sheriff could not answer, but was the responsibility of County Commissioners to answer.

Mr. Richard,

I would like to invite you to the Wynegate Rally on Monday Aug.18th at 6:00 at the developments pool. We have also invited several news press and other influential officials within our government. At this time we will address issues with this bond proposal and putting together a game plan how this can be defeated. I have information from other agencies on new jail figures and sites that I will be presenting.
I will be also educating on the Federal Drug Seizure account issues. Comm. Laughinghouse stated the only way this jail can be funded is by a vote from the citizens. This statement is not true. Every year the county receives Federal Drug Seizure money from our Federal Government. Unfortunately, our Sheriff chooses to use this money for vehicles purchased for his personal use (2-3 new ones a year) and for some reason he felt it was proper to buy Tahoe's for his special command staff. Why should we a citizens have to pay higher taxes for a new jail when the Sheriff and command staff is not willing to make a compromise? We do need a new jail but not in that location or the cost that has given to us to vote on. Remember, Hall County just built a 1000 bed facility for 54 million dollars. Sheriff Paxton's proposal is 480 bed facility for 75-81 million.

If any one would like to volunteer time to help vote this jail down please call 678-858-3809. Together our community can prevent political back scratching on our dime.

Jerry,

Pay attention. Linda and Brian skipped out of our work session at 5:00 while Jim, Charlie and I remained to finish it up and cover executive session. Rhonda left executive early. Charlie went across the street once executive finished up, because he didn't have more work to do at the office. I did. Now just shut your pie-hole.

Ms. Pruitt,

Charlie is correct, and you are under a misconception regarding funding sources.

In government, the only way you can build something is with tax dollars you already have, or on credit by issuing a bond. The bond is the same as requesting a loan to buy your house. The bond can be paid back with funds from just about any source, unless that source is dedicated by law for something specific.

Here's where Charlie is right. We don't have the money to fund a jail right now. Many people wanted SPLOST dollars to fund the jail, but the majority of members of the board, including me, decided that we didn't want to waste all that road improvement money on a single building. We don't have the county reserves to fund the jail either. That leaves going out for a bond as our only option to pay for a jail.

We have two sources to pay a bond back - property taxes or revenue from another defined source or sources. The second option of a revenue bond can only be funded through defined revenue whose source is consistent and guaranteed for a certain time. Drug seizure money may not fit both of those requirements. In addition, the only way to issue those bonds is through a mechanism called the Public Facilities Authority, which was created last year. Because the board didn't want to circumvent the will of the voters, we put a provision in there that any jail or courthouse could not be funded by the PFA (which would be a vote by the appointed members of the authority) and must be funded through a vote of the people.

So either way, a vote of the people through the bond in November, or a vote by the people in a future SPLOST is the only way to fund a jail or justice center in Forsyth County.

You can complain about the location all day long, but there is NO location in Forsyth County that will not generate opposition to a jail being placed there. We had more opposition from residents when the jail was being considered to be placed across the street from a landfill. So that train has left the station with the property already being purchased. And frankly, the City of Cumming isn't all that special that a jail should not be placed within it's city limits. You also have distance considerations for transporting prisoners to and from court, which is when most escapes occur.

I agree with you on the sheriff's spending habits and the cost of the new jail, which I believe is not in the best interests of this county financially.

If I can free up my schedule, I'll be at your meeting, but don't expect me to even consider another location. I can also help explain the funding source issue.

Mr. Richard, I was sent a link from the Asset Forfeiture Money Laundering Section Of the Department of Justice in Washington, D.C.( Below I will attach the guidelines). This is the Section that audits and decides what Forfeiture money can be used for. In my conversation with this person she to questioned why we were not using funds to help build this jail. I also went into the spending of this money on cars. SUV's and repainting new cars. I have requested a Federal Audit of the Forsyth County Sheriff's Department expenditures. When I stated why do we not make a compromise, I feel the FCSO needs to cut any unnecessary costs any way they can due to the hard economical times for the country. Why should our Sheriff rub his new car purchases in faces of the community? I do recall someone addressing the Sheriff asking for help on a vehicle to transport her handicap child. I am sure there will be more enough education in the next 2-4 years.

www.usdoj.gov/criminal.afmls Publications section see pages 10-15

Again, it is not the funding source rules, but our LOCAL rules that prohibits funding a jail without a vote of the people.

Again, I don't disagree with you on the sheriff's spending habits.

Here is the Feds Guidelines concerning uses.

X. USES OF EQUITABLY SHARED PROPERTY A. Law Enforcement Uses

1. Permissible Uses. Subject to laws, rules, regulations, and orders of the state or local jurisdiction governing the use of public funds available for law enforcement purposes (see paragraph 2.e. of this section), the expenses noted below are pre-approved as permissible uses of shared funds and property. Among the following uses, priority should be given to supporting community policing activities, training, and law enforcement operations calculated to result in further seizures and forfeitures:

a. Activities Calculated to Enhance Future Investigations — The support of investigations and operations that may result in further seizures and forfeitures, payment of overtime for officers and investigators; payment of the first year's salaries for new law enforcement positions that supplement the workforce; payments for temporary or not-to-exceed-one-year appointments; payments to informants; "buy," “flash," or reward money; and the purchase of evidence. SEE ADDENDUM PG. 3

b. Law Enforcement Training — The training of investigators, Prosecutors, and law enforcement support personnel in any area that is necessary to perform official law enforcement duties. Priority consideration should be given to training in (1) asset forfeiture in general (statutory requirements, policies, procedures, case law); (2) the Fourth Amendment (search and seizure, probable cause, drafting affidavits, confidential informant reliability); (3) ethics and the National Code of Professional Conduct for Asset Forfeiture; (4) due process rights; (5) protecting the rights of innocent third-parties (individuals and lienholders); and (6) this Guide.

c. Law Enforcement Equipment and Operations — The purchase of body armor, firearms, radios, cellular telephones, computer equipment, software to be used in support of law enforcement purposes, vehicles patrol vehicles, surveillance vehicles), electronic surveillance equipment, uniforms, travel, transportation, supplies, leasing of office and other space for task force and undercover operations, and leasing of other type of equipment that support law enforcement activities.

See Appendix B for further examples of permissible and impermissible uses. Also note that expenditures for these uses are permissible only to extent that they increase resources available to the receiving agency. See Section X.B. of this Guide.

d. Detention Facilities — The costs associated with construction, expansion, improvement, or operation of detention facilities managed by the recipient agency.

e. Law Enforcement Facilities and Equipment — The costs associated with basic and necessary facilities, government furniture, safes, file cabinets, telecommunications equipment, etc., that are necessary to perform official law enforcement duties.

f. Drug Education and Awareness the costs associated with conducting drug education awareness programs by law enforcement agencies.

g. Pro Rata Funding — The costs associated with supporting multi-agency items or facilities. Example: a town purchases a new computerized payroll system; the police department payroll represents twenty percent of the total use of the payroll system. The police department may use shared money to fund its pro rata share (twenty percent) of the operating and maintenance expenses of the system.

Property, facilities, equipment, and other items and services acquired with shared monies must be used only for law enforcement purposes unless written approval is obtained from the Executive Office for Asset Forfeiture. Such property must continue to be used predominantly for law enforcement purposes.

h. Asset Accounting and Tracking - The costs associated with the accounting, auditing, and tracking of expenditures for shared cash, proceeds, and tangible property.

NOTE: The fact that the shared property was forfeited as a result of a particular federal violation does not limit its use. For example, when an agency receives a share of property that was forfeited for a federal drug violation, the shared property does not have to be used in a department’s drug program. Priority consideration should be given, however, to completely equipping units that generate forfeitures in order to foster future forfeiture investigations.

1. Impermissible Uses. Impermissible state and local law enforcement uses include:

a. Payment of Salaries for Existing Positions — The payment of salaries for current permanent law enforcement personnel is not permitted where the payment constitutes a supplantation of the agency's appropriated funds. Note that the payment of first year salaries for new, temporary, or not-to-exceed-one-year positions is permitted as these expenditures supplement and do not supplant existing resources.

b. Uses of Forfeited Property by Non-Law Enforcement Personnel - Use of a shared vehicle or other forfeited tangible property by non-law enforcement personnel for non-law enforcement business is not permitted.

c. Payment of Non-Law Enforcement Expenses — For example, while shared funds may be used to pay the expenses for drug testing of law enforcement personnel, such a use of these funds for the testing of all municipal employees is not permissible.

d. Uses Not Specified in the DAG-71 — Requesting state and local agencies must specify on the DAG-71 what uses will be made of the shared property. Any departure from such stated uses must be approved in writing by the federal decision-maker or the Asset Forfeiture Office, Criminal Division, unless the use is already specified in paragraph A.I. of this section.

e. Uses Contrary to the Laws of the State or Local Jurisdiction — Shared funds may not be used for any purpose that would constitute an improper use of state or local law enforcement funds under the laws, rules, regulations, and orders of the state or local jurisdiction of which the agency is a part.

f. Non-Official Government Use of Shared Assets - Any use that creates the appearance that shared funds are being used for political or personal purposes is not permitted.

g. Extravagant Expenditures — Receiving agencies should use federal sharing monies prudently and in such a manner as to avoid any appearance of extravagance, waste, or impropriety.

See Appendix B for further examples of permissible and impermissible uses.

Mnr. Richard,

Where can I locate this rule you are referring to? Why has the commission not confronted the issue on spending with the Sheriff? Also earlier in the year, it was found a Lt. with the Sheriff's Office was forging the county managers name and altering dates to approve liquor licenses for four businesses and also issuing one day permits without the Commission's approval. This was found and he was moved out of that Department. Why did the commission not call in outside agency to investigate this? The Internal Affairs Department did the investigation and sustained this did happen. What was your position on this?

Again, we are getting off topic here, which is the jail.

Second, the Public Facilities Authority was created this year by a vote of the county commission and a vote by the GA House and Senate. I'll see if I can get a quick copy for you on Monday.

Certain commissioners HAVE confronted the Sheriff over the years regarding his funding, yours truly in particular, but as a constitutional officer, once he gets his money, we have NO way of telling him how to spend it. We can give him less, but thus far there has only been one instance where his INCREASE has been cut, and that was at my urging three budgets ago. We'll have to see how this commission treats the sheriff's budget THIS year, as the 2009 budget hasn't been approved as yet.

Don't know about the forged signatures, but if the person in question is no longer in that posiition, the problem is now solved, isn't it? If the internal investigation showed he did this, why bring in an outside agency?

My suggestion is to not cloudy up the jail issue with all these outside distractions, and focus on the inherent problems with the jail. The rest of this doesn't get the jail defeated in November.

No, I am not getting off topic. I am trying to show how the FCSO operates to their benefit not the citizens. When do you look for the 2009 budget to get approved? Common sense will show while looking at the budget if the jail gets approved then his budget in certain areas will need to go down (transportation, medical etc) and other areas will need to increase due to number of personell added due to housing increase. Sheriff Paxton is wanting to build a direct supervision jail. Currently we have a indirect supervision jail. If passes will increase staff significantly. As per the 2007 budget it is $83.00 a day per inmate to run the dentition center we have now. When we add all the additional staff and amount of the bond they are wanting to build will amount to over $100.00 a day. After reviewing the numbers from the 2007 budget housing inmates out of county even with transportation comes to approximately $43.00 a day per inmate. At the worst economical time the county is wanting to add to our taxes for construction of an astronomical priced jail. Has anyone on the Commission even questioned why we are being charged this amount for the jail when in fact Gordon County built a 380 bed facility for 22 million? What about Hall County constructing a 1000+ bed facility for 54 million? Has Sheriff Paxton met with the Sheriff's of the other Counties? Any input from other agencies would educate what they found may or may not work for them. It is very hard to believe that this jail is costing 75-81 million. If Paxton would compromise on his spending habits maybe our taxes would not increase as much as expected. Now since you brought up the budget for 2009, How much is he wanting an increase for? When will this budget be available for viewing before it is approved?

Did Forsyth County Sheriff Ted Paxton use drug seizure money to squander on his three or four per year hot rods for his personal use when other sheriffs only had one car in a four year term? This question for starters. Most probably these cars came directly from the Taxpayers.

Also high on the questionable scale is the re-painting of new cars simply for aesthetic purposes. This is most surely a senseless use among other expenditures listed on his spread sheet.

Sorry I missed coping a sentence to paste....

The reason I mention this is because I wanted to question why not use portions of the drug seizure money to partially fund a new jail. By the Fed's Guidelines it appears that this might also be possible. I would support this a lot quicker than Ted squandering that money on worthless expenditures.

In the last debate Sheriff Paxton did BRAG that his cars he drives came from the Federal Drug Seizure Money. I have been trying to trace these cars back through the money chain for over a year. I have the Federal Drug Seizure account for 2007 only. This does show where 4 Chevy Tahoe's were purchased. Other cars are listed but I will give the benefit of the doubt these were purchased legally. Maybe. Also why was there a check written for $10,000 to a deputy? Also another question I have for State Drug Seizure Money why did we take in a contribution for$6000.00 from Scientific Games and then the same day cut them a check back for $1000.00? This jail does raise alot of curiosity.

Keep in mind the FCSO will not release 2001-2006 and year to date for Federal and State drug seizure money. Why?

Yes, you are getting way off topic if you want to defeat the jail.

In case you missed it, Paxton won his recent race with over 85% of the vote. The voters don't give a darn about the outside spending issues at the sheriff's department, despite what they read and hear around the county.

Focus on the jail only. Don't do the scatter-gun approach of he spent this or that. The jail proposal is flawed enough if the FACTS are hammered home enough, because the defense of them is pretty indefensible

Add in the headquarters building which is bigger than the admin building with 100 less sheriff's employees than county employees expected to work there, with no large meeting room or atrium like we have, and you have two boondoggles in November.

But focus on the immediate task.

The jail is expected to cost $75 million. There is NO $81 million figure. The cost of land is NOT in the bond proposal, as that has already been paid for and can't be paid back with the bond. There is no amount of decrease in the sheriff's budget that would allow us to pay for this jail without a bond issuance, so that is a moot point.

The budget is not finalized and is not yet ready for publication, as commissioners are still working with finance on certain issues before it is brought to the full board for review. We expect to see it for public input in the next month or so.

Again, using drug seizure money COULD be used to fund a new jail, but the PFA restricts us to using 60% of a revenue stream in order to keep us from paying back the bonds with property taxes, so there would need to be much more revenue from more sources if we were to fund it from the PFA, and it would STILL have to go before the voters.

The 81 million dollar price tag I gave came straight from the Forsyth County News when the jail and headquarters were split a few weeks ago. Then the price tag went down to 79 million. Then this week it went to 75 million. So yes it did start out at 81 million for the jail only. When I was referring to a reduction to the budget only meant to decrease the areas that we are no longer going to use as much of if the new jail gets built. Furthermore, do not talk to me in a negative tone. Why will you not answer my questions?

By the way you know as well as I do I did not miss that Paxton won by 85%. Do you have to be an a$$ to everyone?

I will point out that I am the ONLY person trying to answer your questions. Try to remember that.

And I'd suggest that using the FCN as your source for information is not a good one. The price tag for the jail has never been more than $75 million since being brought to the county commission, which is the only number that counts.

You have a choice: you can keep trying to get answers from me and have to put up with my impatience with you when you don't understand the simple concepts, or you can go elsewhere for your information, take longer, and probably get wrong information when you do.

Mr. Richard What did we pay for the land for the jail?

If memory serves me right, between $8-$9 million.