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Raw Sewage into Lake Lanier?
23 comment(s)
Originally Published Jun 6, 2008, 12:28am
(Updated Jun 6, 2008, 12:47am)
With lake levels at their lowest in years, now is probably not the best time for bad news about violations of sewage discharge into the lake. Even worse would be the fact that this is not news at all. Its been happening for over 4 years, and the problem could get worse if something isn't done soon.
In order to legally operate any private sewer system, the owner/operator must have a permit from the Environmental Protection Division. Additionally, strict water quality standards with zero tolerance, plus many other conditions, must be met for a permit to discharge wastewater into Lake Lanier. The Habersham sewer has consistently violated these standards
Why hasn't the EPD taken action? Why hasn't anyone taken action?
Well for starters, its not even clear who owns the system. This has been a subject of dispute and a legal entanglement for several years. At one point the system was presented for sale to the City of Cumming, who was already running a new sewer line to within a few feet of the private sewer, but the owner at the time, IFS Utility, and the City of Cumming failed to reach an agreement on its value, which included a valuable lake discharge permit and 10 acres of real estate along Buford Dam road. Residents who used the sewer became frustrated with IFS Utility, and formed an entity known as the Habersham Action Committee. After some legal battles. Habersham Action Committe became temporary owners of the system via a quit claim deed from IFS, with the intention of turning the system over to the city. Soon after this, however, the attorney who wrote this deed was disbarred - for writing false quit claim deeds. The deal with the city never happened, and ever since, the residents have been left "holding the bag".
For 4 years now, the antiquated sewer system has been operated by Habersham Action Committee, Inc. A group of homeowners who volunteer their time and money to keep it running, but this cannot last much longer. "The matter is at a very critical point." volunteer operator Glenn Berny stated. "The Permit to operate the sewer expires on 12/31/08. Our association has no intent to renew the permit. The system is beyond obsolescence. We have alerted the EPD, The Lake Lanier association, the Corp. of Engineers and the county." If the sewer system were to simply be shut down, raw sewage would quickly overflow into the nearby valley, which leads directly into Lake Lanier. The discharge permit alone is worth millions (just ask Gwinnett County - they have been trying to get one for years) .
The logical remedy for this situation is for the City of Cumming to take over operation of the sewer system. If the system is connected to the City's sewer line, there will no longer be a need to discharge into the lake at all. With the current ownership in dispute, however, the city appears uninterested in moving forward with efforts to take it over. Calls to the City of Cumming regarding this issue were not returned.
"We have negotiated in good faith." Berny said. "The city has a sewer system available to all new building sites in our area. We have offered to pay in excess of the city rate. We have offered our EPD permit to discharge. We have offered the Land along Buford road of great value. We have tried all avenues of cooperation to no avail."
Through an agreement with Habersham Action Committee, The City of Cumming currently manages the billing of the sewer system, and provides occasional maintenance support, but has no legal claim nor responsibility for the system. "We could not operate without the assistance of the most gracious and courteous folks at the City water and sewer Dept." Berny said.
An interesting twist to this situation is the location of the sewer discharge - Directly across the cove from Mary Alice Park, site of the anticipated Great Wolf Resort. The US Army Corps of Engineers recently conducted an environmental assessment of the area, which included details such as the crime rate at Mary Alice Park, and the presence of fecal coliform bacteria in the water due to geese. The assessment appears, however, to ignore the existence of this substandard sewer discharge.
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Comments
23 comment(s) on this page. Add your own comment below.
Hello concerned Citizens,
There is only one way to stop this illegal dumping and I already know how to do it. I could explain how to do it and most people will turn their heads and just fade away as usual. If there are enough people who really care can someone e-mail me tsweeney@mail.com or call 404 731 6335 and I will explain the facts about going forward and cutting off this discrasful illegal dumping.
The reason why no one does anything about it is they are told [you can't, you won't be able to, your not allowed and I'm sorry. This is the mentallity of most believers. I will go forward and not listen to negative minds.
Go ask Jim Boff what he would do and then go ask Charlie Smith. You will get nothing.
Terry Sweeney
Terry, It suprises me that you would insert yourself into this. Until this article was written you have said nothing, even though you sat next to me at Smart Growth's Q&A when I first described this sewer system. I pointed out that Forsyth County has too many cracks within its own government and between the several governments which operate within the county. I also said that there are people within the county who leverage these cracks to their own advantage as is the case here. I admit that between the failure of the EPD, the Corps of Engineers, the apparent fraud in clouding up the ownership, and the duplicity of the City of Cumming, which did not bother to tell anyone the outflow is right next to Mary Alice Park, I don't know how to fix this. I plan to shine the light of public opinion on all of the institutions which have failed us here, while being supportive of the heroic attempts by the homeowners to operate this nightmare.
You should remember that this is occuring within District 5 where you and I are running, there are other candidates in this district who have no idea what is going on.
You say you know how to fix this. If so, you have an obligation to do it immediately now that I have told you of the situation. Jim Boff
My concern is everyone wants to blame someone rather than just fixing the problem. Take and tie this into the new sewer system and be done with it. Also take a look at other locations around Lake Lanier and you will find this is not the only place doing raw dumps. I would bet that the Core of Engineers know about more violations. Simply just fix it instead of wanting to blame someone.
Mr. Boff and C Hamilton,
1st, Jim, This forum was to Comment on issues. I did not think My approach whould be questioned or get you to jump.. I always jump in with 2 feet. 99% of the people will believe lies about the corp ownership and this is what we got. (hint) (The county has jurisdiction,the state has original jurisdiction).
If I had friends like you have Charlie, jim, Dave...they should of started Eminent Domain proceedings a long time ago or RIGHT NOW.......
Eminent Domain is what we need to do because its a HEALTH HAZARD! Its not like taking a flower shop by EmD. and giving it to condo builders. Your friends in the commission can make it happen. Go ahead and asks and get the excusses back here on this forum.
2nd C Hamilton, This is really what is going to happen if I was a Commissioner.
a. The E.P.D. Permit runs out in December. b. Habersham Action Committee files for Extension to stay open, this is when we start to make it a legal option or positive move. I say Positive move is better. . c.The Action Committee gets it funding during this time period while seeing if the county can back the Bond for the repairs or maybe fix it for them. After all they are our citizens and it can't cost that much to do.
The Pine Lake Dam fiasco was a DISCRACE. We had a contractor at the time who was going to fix the dam if the county paid for the material. The county fell down on the job. Because no one would act right for them or work it out. no no no- cant cant cant and not allowed is what I was hearing. If I hear this when I am elected, I will hold a press conference on it and the Forsyth County news and Herald and cumminghome.com can all be part of the correction within our communities. I would love to hold a press conference at least 2 times a month or more. It will all be positive, no secrets.
Thanks for your time. Terry Sweeney
Mr. Sweeney is a either unrealistic or uninformed to think that repairs and maintenance can be performed at little cost (or any cost for that matter) by the volunteer citizen group handling this matter for the benefit of the 400+ customers of the private sewer system. The city of Cumming has jurisdiction over water and sewer all around this area and should connect the customers and continue to bill at the current [higher than normal] rate these customers have been willing to pay to offset any connection charges and maintenance expense. The fees more than cover this for the city, who is well-equipped to manage and maintain the system. Especially considering the value of real estate and discharge permit these citizens are willing to "hand over" to the city in exchange for GIVING them 400+ new customers on a silver (albeit, sewer-stained) platter.
What happened? When the sewer article first posted there were many comments, questions, etc. We were told that an article would appear in the Forsyth paper concerning this issue. Suddenly, no comments, no meetings scheduled and nothing in the paper. Is anyone addressing this issue?
following is a response to the issue from the EPD:
Things are never as simple as we would like.
The permit for the system is held by Habersham Action Committee, Inc. who actually obtained the plant and permit as the trustee for the original permittee.
The issues of ownership are tied up in a series of claims and counter-claims that EPD simply has no role in. We intend to enforce the permit requirements against the existing permit holder. We have perhaps been guilty of allowing too much time to pass in hoping the various parties and the City of Cumming could come to a final agreement. Our process will be limited to actions against the HAC group.
The solution we prefer is for the system to be tie-on to the City of Cumming system. However, we can not force the city to do this and they are very reluctant to do so with the various lawsuits that are going on. The situation we do not want to get to is having to order the system to cease discharging and have the homeowners have to leave their homes since they would be without the ability to discharge.
Our enforcement process is underway, but the process is not as swift or certain as people often wish. We are likely to have to issue an administrative order to the HAC. This Order is subject to appeal and because of the issues surrounding the facility will most certainly be appealed. This begins a process of administrative hearings and appeals that can take several years. However, it is the only process available to us under state law. This is the reason we work hard to get resolution of these issues without having to go through the formal enforcement route.
It is not that we don't care, it is just we have to work with the tools the legislature provides us.
If those involved in the lawsuits would drop them them I think the city would take this over? At least that is the picture I get.
Maybe those that are involved in the lawsuits should be made public so that people could contact them and encourage them to drop the suits. Sometimes the envitonment, health and safety outway the money that could be made. I also think that some of the holding back of info is just politics and this is too serious for that.
The lawyer that claims ownership bought at auction. How much did he pay? If this is true then he could be reimbursed and go on his way as this is not just another piece of property.
First, let me state that I lived in the Habersham subdivision back in 1978 and in the state when it was not completed and it was in major disarray. I also realize that this takes money and someone has to foot the bill. I have seen a lot go on in this county and this is just another one of those issues that will again go unresolved for several more years do to red tape. Finger pointing and law suits do nothing to correct the issue. I hope everyone will have the strength to pull together and unite as the strong Americas can be. Please find the resolve for the people as a whole and not resign to petty bickering. Thanks Chamilton
While a rendition of "Whose on First" plays out likely a quarter million gallons of waste is being excreated DAILEY into Lake Lanier...No wonder ACE flushes so much water out!
"Sunshine" is appearingly the best disinfectant here...My conclusion as a "Concerned Citizen" to reading everyones input so far at least...
So let it shine!
Mr. Carter...If in fact the discharge is NOT IN COMPLIANCE then this is clearly a significant threat to Public Health and EMERGENCY ACTION should be expedited to that situations remedy IMMEDIATLY. If that means Hook this "Private" system to the Sanitary Sewer System is the best alternative to allowing it's further discharge into the Lake THEN DO IT! Whatever costs are then incurred may then be placed in a lein upon those 10 acres and/or whatever "Value" the system has otherwise to whomever/whatever is registered as being "The Party" culpable for it's maintainence...This isin't My neighbores septic system leaking into Caney Creek for a "Hardship" being allowed constructed within a FEMA depicted "Flood Zone" instead of connecting to the adjecent Sewer...This is 400+ residents (Non-Profit?) "System" discharging DIRECTLY into the Water Supply and Recreational Waters that have been provided for Millions of People, at a location soon to be adjecent that (Forthcomming?) Public Attraction/Water Park.
This will be a topic discussed at The next BOC "Candidates Debate" that I will see to starting!
The ignorance of those responsible for the protection ALL ASPECTS of our Public Waters MUST END starting with just such "Sunshine"...Now, "Candidates"...Who wants a Tan?
It's either that or a "Sunburn" later!
I see a lot of disturbing talk going back and forth on this mismanaged sewer water.(waste water). I call it sewer water because that is what it is! Jim Boffs friends on the commission have all the power to correct this discusting mess. And what have we gotten......NOTHING. This property has no value to the owner considering it has a defunct SEWER SYSTEM on it. FIX IT OR LOOSE IT IS WHAT I SAY. This property can be taken by eminent domain and do not let anybody tell you its not true. Plain and Simple......IT IS A HEALTH HAZARD AND PEOPLE CAN DIE. Get Jim Boff to do something about it NOW! HE HAS NOT GOTTEN BACK WITH THE EXCUSSES FORM HIS FRIENDS IN THE COMMISSION. If someone cannot get anything done now, do you think it will get done later. NO GUTS
Thank you, Terry Sweeney
I just got this off of the Upper Chattahooc. River Keepers site. This plant is within a mile of the Habersham Plant. I knew it was closed but other than that I didn't know any of this. Does anyone else know anything about it? Please write or call www.jimboff.com
http://www.ucriverkeeper.org/litigation2b5.htm Legal Cases Wastewater
Private Sewage Plant on Lake Lanier Brought into Compliance A small, private sewage plant, owned by foreign investors and located in Forsyth County, was found to be discharging highly elevated amounts of fecal coliform into Lake Lanier. Additional development was proposed to be served by this mal-functioning facility, known as Lanier Beach South, and the County Commission held secret meetings to approve a re-zoning proposal. Represented by the Turner Environmental Law Clinic, UCR and Lake Lanier Association filed a legal action under the Georgia Open Meetings Act in 1999. Ultimately, the County took over the plant and it was placed under a consent order by EPD for system upgrades; a moratorium was placed on the hookup of additional homes.
Hello Jack, This is what is happening with the defunct sewer system. This is going to be a night mere in the very near future and this current commission has the duty to do something about it. Jim Boff responded to my comment saying "Terry Sweeney has a duty to do something about the illegal dumping". This is totally misleading because the commissioners and Jim Boff are friendly with him and he eats their food during rest period at the commissiion meeting. In other words he thinks he is a shoe in. HE SHOULD BE ASKING HIS FRIENDS NOW! And telling them they have a duty, only shows a do nothing move. HE WON'T!!!!
This defunct sewer system was purchased at auction for 500,000 or so by a member of Smart Growth with the intentions of selling it to the City if the gulf course rezoning was allowed for the 700 houses. The deal fell thru and the sewer system was left unattended. INFACT: The owner took the motors that pump the system and supposidly sold them to make some money back. The homowners were forced to "RENT" THEIR OWN MOTORS.WHAT A DISCRACE THIS IS. Jim Boff has never said a word to the commissioner about this and if he did, why hasn't anything been done. Because Jim Boff cannot get anything done at all,period. end of story.
The other sewer plant down the way would cost much more money to do. One mile there and one mile back, lets do the math.
I'm with you on your issues Jack.
Thanks for your involvement. Terry Sweeney
Unlike some people, the county commission actually RESEARCHES facts about issues before deciding to spend taxpayer money.
We are evaluating the condition of the plant, the financial mess surrounding ownership, capacities available across the city and county systems, etc.
What we do know is that the plant in NOT in imminent danger of failing, nor are people going to die because of this, nor are people going to be forced out of their homes because of this.
Once all the FACTS are in, we'll take appropriate action through the appropriate agencies to get this issue resolved, and I thank Jim Boff for bringing it to the attention of the commission.
It looks like a logical answer to this illegal discharging into Lake Lanier from Dvae Richard without basterdizing the messagner. See what happens when someone prays for someone else.
The truth about people dieing is a fact. Just go swim in the cesspool and come back and tell us how you feel.
How long does it take to get answers to this mess? 1 week, 1 month, 1 year, 1 decade?
Why not hire consultants? Why not hire a fisherman? Why not hire a doctor?
Get us answers, I already have the answers.
Condem the property by eminent domain because the property is worth nothing and has a potental of being worth more with little tax payers money involved.
IT IS OBVIOUS NOTHING WILL BE DONE ABOUT IT. I WILL GET SOMETHING DONE IN JANUARY. I ALREADY TALKED ABOUT EMINENT DOMAIN BEFORE ANYONE HAS.
DO THE MATH.
T.S.
Anyone who throws out the eminent domain card without first doing their homework is a very dangerous person to place in any position of responsibility.
Eminent domain is something that should be rarely considered, and only as a last resort, not a first resort. That is something even Linda Ledbetter and I agree on.
Woooops theuir it is.........More of the "you can't" mentallity from a person who should have at the very least considered EMINENT DOMAIN because it is a HEALTH HAZARD. Poision? na
This is the last resort.........fix it or loose it!!!!!
AGAIN: This is not a flower shop in south ga where they forced a flower shop owner into E.D. for condos. This is Lake Lanier, the Heart and arteries of North Georgia. BUT IF A CITIZENS SEPTIC TANK FLOWS OVER ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE AGAINST THE CITIZEN. The dogs come out! It appears that there is an under lying issue hiding some where.
Dave Richard has Jim Boff ever told you "that you had a duty to the Citizens of this county to do something about it immediatly",or not?
Who is the owner of this Defunct Sewer System?
And Does this owner back you and Jim Boff? Please don't come back and say you don't know.
Dave Richard, what do you propose, Big GUY?
I know what I would do right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for nothing,
Terry Sweeney
First of all, I live in Habersham and agree that something needs to be done to correct the problem. Many of us who live in the neighborhood have inherited this issue.
What I find disconcerting is the manner that the candidates for the commissioner postiions are using when discussing this matter.
This has definately given me insight on who I will vote for when the time comes.
Mr. Tony, I don't really understand what you are saying. Throw me a bone and tell me what you think we should do? Because waiting for answers from the candidates will take for ever execpt from me.
Condem the property, pay almost nothing for it cause it has no value now, but when it explodes into a Catastrophe it will only cost 5 million of tax payer money and thats ok. by todays standards.
Thank my oponents who have no plans to move forward. They only make excuses.
Ts.
Gentlemen...
The very first thing that need be confirmed here is:
Is this "Discharge" out of Compliance with those acceptable standards, and if so to what degree?
One point to consider here is that the "Acceptable Standards" for a Permitted Discharge into Lake Lanier may actually be higher than what is allowed into whatever bottled water is parked on a shelf in any of OUR refrigerators right now...ever smell a freshly opened bottle of Perrier?
I've yet to observe presented any such facts here...indeed, what I've read and viewed (for what imagry that picture of rusty pipe entering the waterline of some body of water conjours...) makes me bristle to find those culpable of this atrocity...if in fact it's a discharge of "Raw Sewage" effluent, and not otherwise some lesser degree of the systems failure.
That situation does need to be addressed, but it may not be the "Monster" it appears to be at first sighting.
I hereby address the leading officer of our Forsyth County Health Dept., and pray for his concerned response.
Mr. Carter,
As a matter and interest of Public Safety and Concern, I request that the testing of the discharge of this system into Lake Lanier be confirmed "In Compliance" or otherwise, with that determination depicting to what specific degree of contamination exists, to then be presented in some public notice (Here works) as soon as can possibley be expedited, in the interest of adressing the Concerns for Public Safety brought forth in this Public Forum.
Further of that, if found to be an impending danger of significant magnitude to Public Safety, please remedy the situation as expeditiously as possible, in a manner best suited to the procurement of attaining that level of Public Safety your department is responsible of maintaining for the best interests of The People of Forsyth County.
Your Considerations are appreciated, I thank You.
Sincerely, Jack Gleason Concerned Citizen Forsyth County Dist. 2 www.FriendsOfCaneyCreek.org
I may not know how to fix this problem, But when I am elected in office, I will see that it is done, not sit on it and do nothing!!!
DONT SUPPORT DAVE! SIGN THIS ONLINE PETITION TO SHOW YOUR "ANTI-DAVE" SUPPORT. LINK: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/dave_sucks/index.html
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